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Thursday, February 20, 2014

Just How Old Is Our Earth and Universe, 3.8 billion or 6,000 Years???

The Debate Continues: On February 4, Bill Nye (The Science Guy) debated creationist Ken Ham for two and a half hours regarding a number of topics that many followers of science and the Bible struggle to reconcile.
The age of the Earth and the universe is one subject that causes no end of frustration for both sides. Did our space time continuum come into existence 13.8 billion years ago, or six thousand years ago? This is a very important question, and in many instances vital (necessary for life) when it comes to where we spend eternity.
Science uses a myriad of physical evidence to conclude the universe we live in is 13.8 years old, give or take a few years. Reference
Those who promote it is 6,000 years old use the geneologies of man going back to Adam from the Bible to date the Earth. They also conclude the six days of creation are literal twenty-four hour periods. Dinosaurs and cavemen and everything that left behind a fossil also lived during the past 6,000 years. Herein lies the prolonged contention.
They will also state it was the Great Flood during Noah’s time that caused the physical features like the Grand Canyon and such. But even a flood of this magnitude cannot cause the extreme features our Earth exhibits. Perhaps some. But it cannot come close to explaining what would take hundreds of millions of years to make.
The Answer Is Quite Simple: The time between the verses of Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 holds the key. Some people call this the Gap Theory. I’ve heard both sides of the argument in great detail. Let them argue.
No one knows how much time transpired between these verses. It could be one day. Or it could be 13.8 billion years.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Important Note: God did not create everything we see around us during the "Six Days of Creation" detailed in Genesis chapter one. He created everything that makes up everything during Genesis 1:1. He simply spoke into being what we read in the following verses and this is what we see and experience every day. The stuff that makes up the stuff in our universe already existed. He simply spoke it into an orderly fashion for us to live in 6,000 years ago. Everything else, including dinosaurs, cavemen, and Pangaea occurred between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Science and the Bible have had a long standing feud. Lots of people were killed because they took a stance different from what the established Church at the time held. Example: for centuries people held an Aristotelian geocentric view of our universe, mainly that the Earth was the center of our universe and everything including our sun revolved around it.
Galileo: When Galileo championed a heliocentrism view (the sun being the center and Earth revolved around it) he was persecuted by the Catholic Church. Simply because he used science to stand up to long held Church tradition.
The same can be said today. Many who hold to a centuries old tradition of a 6,000 year old universe will draw a line in the sand. I’ve even been told I can’t be saved if I do not accept the 6,000 year theory. Huhn???
Why Does It Matter? I have heard far too many people state they would love to believe the Bible and its message of salvation. But, because of the 6,000 year tradition they know is false, they simply cannot regard the Bible as truth. They see an error here, and conclude the Bible may be a good book, but cannot be taken literally.

Meet the Author. No, not Dean Koontz. Me.
The result is many people die in their sins and spend an eternity separated from God. How many when it is all said and done? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Millions? Why? Because of the 6,000 day theory that the Bible does not teach. Man does. Tradition does. But the Bible does not.
So you can see why I am passionate about this topic. Science and the Bible can co-exist just fine, thank you very much.
To see the debate CLICK HERE
Action and Modern Day Sci-fi writer Stephen Tremp is the author of the Breakthrough: The Adventures of Chase Manhattan trilogy. His third book Escalation is the final installment in the series and is set for release March 10, 2014.
Escalation is an epic clash where science and the supernatural take center stage for mankind’s destiny. The setting is global and the adrenaline-charged action is non-stop. You can visit Stephen at Breakthrough Blogs.


Rob Z Tobor said...

And to make things even more complex it rather depends on your religion. Most members of a religion say all the others are wrong so they like to fight a lot. Added to the fact that religion used to kill anyone who implied the world was round and that the sun did not go round the earth.

I think you either accept science or you need to return to a flat earth. I am not sure you can pick and choose the best bits of both.

Or you can join my own little religion with one member (me) and have Micro Gods, one for all events, much more exciting.....

That 6000 year thing does not really happen in Britain much, but then there have been folk wandering about here for over 10,000 years. The world was flatter back then though.

Susan Scott said...

I like your explanation of Gen !:! and Gen1:2.
Science together with Religion explains much. They do not have to be wholly distinct from each other or fully opposite in concept. Fortunately, there are still mysteries in both realms. Nothing is conclusive though the belief that the earth is only 6000 years old is a bit naive.

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Who knows how much time passed for God during those first few days.
Creation science goes beyond the 6000 year theory though. They have as much proof (and to me, more) that the earth is much younger and that creation did happen.
That's why they call it the THEORY of evolution, folks.
Besides, we'll find out the truth eventually.

Frankie Miller said...

I've never been able to see why science and the Bible can't co-exist, but then I've always known that God exists outside of time.
2 Peter 3:8
'...With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.'
A million or billion years is something we're stuck with because we live inside 'time'.

Timothy S. Brannan said...

Theory in science means something completely different that the common use of the word.

A Theory has multiple sources of evidence and predictive power.

Other "theories" in science include the Theory of Gravity, the Germ-Theory of disease and the Theories of Relativity.

There is an overwhelming tide of data to support the age of the Earth at 4.5 Billion Years.

Sorry but this only a "debate" for creationist. To scientist you might as well be debating the alternatives to Gravity Theory.

JoJo said...

IMHO, science trumps religion any day. From what I understand Bill Nye won that debate hands down. For one, doesn't the bible say Noah was 600 years old. Really? REALLY?! For another, it was translated how many times into how many different languages? Sorry, but I find myself having little to no respect for anyone that truly believes the earth is 6,000 years old. 'Because the bible says so' just doesn't cut it. The bible is an interesting story book, but that's all they are: stories.

Jarm Del Boccio said...

Thanks for sharing your view on creation based on the Biblical account. So encouraging to hear others speak out on it. Blessings!

Jo said...

I agree with JoJo. I fully support scientific discoveries.

A friend who goes to Bible study pointed out to me the question "who was there to take notes?"

Stephen Tremp said...

Thanks everyone for stopping by and piping in. Our world and our place in it does have meaning. Once we understand things more clearly, then we can stop all the strife and contention that doesn't help us at all.

Mary Aalgaard said...

Great post. It is our human limitations that block us from understanding. We don't know how long, really. We can't. God only knows.

Heather M. Gardner said...

Thought provoking post, Stephen.

Anonymous said...

Interesting post! I do believe science and religion can coexist, but I do not believe the Creationist theory. Your theory is interesting and worth exploring. I will definitely take it into further consideration.

That being said, I do not believe the bible is something to take literally. For me, it's always been more of a moral compass; something to guide you to be a better person. You can be a scientist, believe in the big bang theory, and still believe that God created all.

It's a touchy subject, and I doubt that's going to change any time soon. But one way to get past anger issues related to it is to be willing to have an open dialogue and accept that some will always have an unwavering belief in Creation while others will not.

Gail said...

Here's a thought: To create isn't to make something out of nothing. When God created the earth, he formed it from matter already in existence. Perhaps that pre-existent matter was from a world where dinosaurs existed? Could this earth have been used before for other beings? The biblical history is a history of just one line of descent, from Adam to Noah, etc. Lots of possibilities! Don't throw the "baby" out with the bathwater and discount the Bible completely because we don't understand everything!

Anonymous said...

This is such an interesting discussion. I'm a firm believer that God and science don't need to be a debate. The Bible is the Word of God imo, but who really knows the heart and mind of God? Therefore, what man can conclusively state what God meant in Genesis?

The Bible is filled with different types of writing. Look at the Psalms, parables and letters. We have much to learn from the Bible. However, to take it out of context and use it to justify our own position doesn't work for me.

I believe in God and I'm a Christian. Any man who distorts the Word of God to make others succumb to his demands, misinterprets the love of a God who became man and died for our sins. Church tradition has its place. However, people need to think for themselves sometimes, especially when Church leaders mandate things that clearly go against the love of God who plainly said, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Guilie Castillo said...

This is one of my favorites :) As an--ahem--atheist, I don't have much at stake, but it seems interesting that humanity has always been bent on staking a claim on The Absolute Unchangeable Truth, while history keeps whispering, "Patience, little Hobbit, patience." As a debate of theories I find it fascinating. But there's lives being lost, families torn apart, because of it, and that's not so pleasant. Great post :)

Stephen Tremp said...

Hmmmm ... I don't see the ability to comment on individual comments, and I would like that option here. I'll have to email the moderator.

Timothy S. Brannan said...

edited. typo.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter to me what people want to believe, just keep Creationism out of the schools. The US ranks near the bottom when it comes to science education and that is just wrong.

Tina said...

Great post Stephen, and a lively discussion. I'm a Christian, and I'm perfectly willing to say, "I don't know the answer to this but I sure am going to ask when I get the chance." The age of the earth isn't the only thing confusing people, though. I believe that if we could figure it all out, then why would we need a God who knows more than we do? He is unfathomable, or He wouldn't be God.
I sure enjoy studying the Bible, though, and TRYING to figure stuff out.
I'm with MJ - the main thing that we all seem to forget is the treat others as you'd like to be treated. Let's spread some love and acceptance and those lessons which aren't confusing and stop making divisions among people over stuff that is debatable.
So {{{hugs}}} from this co-host, and you're welcome at my house anytime for anything you might need, regardless of what you believe.
I guess what I'm saying is how we treat each other is more important than trying to put a number on the age of the earth. And I'm a mathematician by degree...
Tina @ Life is Good
A to Z Team co-host A-Z Challenge Blog
@TinaLifeisGood, #atozchallenge

Andrew Leon said...

It doesn't matter how much you say that. To those on the extreme right, you're just as doomed as everyone else. And you're not going to convince them otherwise no matter how many facts you put in front of them. Facts don't matter.

LD Masterson said...

I've never heard it referred to as the Gap Theory but I've always believed the six days described in the book of Genesis are not the 24 hour time periods we think of as days. I don't think we can comprehend God's timetable.

Stephen Tremp said...

I need to take that leap of faith and set my wormhole for Year One. Could be dangerous. But inquiring minds like mine want to know.

Anonymous said...

A thought provoking post Stephen and
one I suppose will go on for generations to come.
A great write.

Anonymous said...

i love this conversation you've started but all i really want to know is, how old does that make ME?

Anstice Brown said...

Personally I don't believe in God (at least not the traditional Christian idea of God). However, I am very interested in both religion and science, and believe they can be perfectly compatible. Most of my Christian friends take a non-literal approach to the Bible, believing that the Creation story is an allegory. I think the important message of the story is that God created the earth-the time-scale is irrelevant. I don't think it's a contradiction to believe in the big bang theory and the theory of evolution whilst also believing that God created the earth and set these processes in motion.

J Lenni Dorner said...

Very interesting take.

Stephen Tremp said...

Thanks Rob for the response and the humor!

Stephen Tremp said...

Fanny, this verse alone tells us there is far more beyond our perceived four dimensional space time continuum.

Stephen Tremp said...

Jarm, I have much to say on this matter. I can incorporate these concepts into my books too. I have a lot of fun with this. And it makes for a great story.

Stephen Tremp said...

Thanks Heather. That's the intent. Get people talking and going deeper into the subject matter.

Stephen Tremp said...

Katie, I see what you're saying. But my motto is better safe than sorry. At least get your fire insurance if nothing else.

Stephen Tremp said...

Tina, you and me both!

Stephen Tremp said...

Tizzy, I love the Big Bang Theory. For me, the Big Bang is Genesis 1:1.

Stephen Tremp said...

Guilie, there is a section in Ephesians that talks about the areas we are to be united in. But what I find interesting is doctrine is not mentioned. Not that doctrine isn't important. I think God understands we will never be united in many doctrines and when we try but ultimately disagree, this is when wars are fought and families torn apart. I can listen to another's point of view even if I don't agree yet not get angry with them.

Hilary Melton-Butcher said...

Hi Stephen .. the debate continues .. but not for me - I can understand the scientific take and am so pleased they keep finding things out ... and the Bible with its stories gives us a faith, or a religion to be involved with us .. helping us through life - yet we keep fighting .. but that's man and his control mechanism which is too corrupt. I hope through the butterfly effect, the many outreaches of good people we can affect and help others ...

Cheers Hilary

Anna Tan said...

This is one of those debates that will never be resolved in our lifetimes, I think.
There are just too many things we don't know.

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